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  1. #141
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    Taking another level of paladin. She gains 8 hp. She picks up a fighting style - Great Weapon Fighting. She learns to cast spells. She prepares Cure Wounds, Divine Favor, and Shield of Faith. She learns Divine Smite.

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    Another level in bard. Gains 6 hp for a total of 15, learns thunderwave spell also the jack of all trades and song of rest abilities


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    Talanta: +1 level Ranger, Fighting Style - Archery (+2 attack with ranged weapons), Spellcasting - 2 spells known (Cure Wounds, Hunter's Mark), 2 level one slots, HP +7

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    Usually online 8 a.m. - midnight CST


  4. #144
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    Does Elminster tell us all about what we're up against, like, right before he sends us to the location, or is it assumed that after he has told us what he knows, we then have some time to think and shop and prepare?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Does Elminster tell us all about what we're up against, like, right before he sends us to the location, or is it assumed that after he has told us what he knows, we then have some time to think and shop and prepare?
    The latter.

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    AYe .. I would have made sure to shine my shield so that it was extra reflective :P

    I know my greek mythology!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hideous View Post
    The latter.
    Okay, great, that's great. Now, I'm sure that it will vary each time - sometimes we won't need much, other times we will probably be able to do our own separate preparations, but every now and then we may need to prepare as a group and actually even discuss strategy before heading to the location of the battle. Since you're looking to keep things from becoming too heavy on the RP side, I'm not sure how you'd like to have the shopping and strategizing handled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Okay, great, that's great. Now, I'm sure that it will vary each time - sometimes we won't need much, other times we will probably be able to do our own separate preparations, but every now and then we may need to prepare as a group and actually even discuss strategy before heading to the location of the battle. Since you're looking to keep things from becoming too heavy on the RP side, I'm not sure how you'd like to have the shopping and strategizing handled.
    I will leave it up to you guys, but I would propose just handling it all in the OOC thread. If you want, however, I can open a new thread for you guys for that purpose.

  9. #149
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    Yes, if you're okay with none of it being handled IC then doing all the discussion amongst ourselves here in OOC would be fine with me.

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    Aye I picture it as a summary type of thing not a full RP. perhaps something more as a last post to the defeated monster thread -

    Elminister does his "Well done... go and rest.... for tomorrow you are going hunting for the dreaded Basilisk. Its said to be in a watery cavern, a huge snake with tough skin and ...oh try not to look at it. I don't need any more statues for my garden."

    We now know to go and make sure we have - reflective surfaces to look around corners and or trick it into looking at itself with... and torches/lanterns for the non darkvisions.
    Possibly water walk or water breathing (If anyone had access to it).

    We get a "chance to do any equipment changes / scroll re-arrangement." or purchases... and then you lock the defeated monster thread... and we get to OOC any plan/changes as you work up the treasure etc (Since that usually takes a day or two)... then you post the new thread...once posting starts... no new purchases/changes allowed.... type of thing.

    I also think we should have a separate thread... which is called our *Storeroom*.
    Things we pick up that we might not need right now... but "Could" be handy later (ie extra scrolls / potions etc) could be listed there...
    Also if anyone drops out - or we find we need another person at some point for whatever reason... its a place that a new player could potentially find something useful - depending on class.
    Last edited by Lycanthus; 10-15-2020 at 10:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthus View Post
    Aye I picture it as a summary type of thing not a full RP. perhaps something more as a last post to the defeated monster thread -

    Elminister does his "Well done... go and rest.... for tomorrow you are going hunting for the dreaded Basilisk. Its said to be in a watery cavern, a huge snake with tough skin and ...oh try not to look at it. I don't need any more statues for my garden."

    We now know to go and make sure we have - reflective surfaces to look around corners and or trick it into looking at itself with... and torches/lanterns for the non darkvisions.
    Possibly water walk or water breathing (If anyone had access to it).

    We get a "chance to do any equipment changes / scroll re-arrangement." or purchases... and then you lock the defeated monster thread... and we get to OOC any plan/changes as you work up the treasure etc (Since that usually takes a day or two)... then you post the new thread...once posting starts... no new purchases/changes allowed.... type of thing.

    I also think we should have a separate thread... which is called our *Storeroom*.
    Things we pick up that we might not need right now... but "Could" be handy later (ie extra scrolls / potions etc) could be listed there...
    Also if anyone drops out - or we find we need another person at some point for whatever reason... its a place that a new player could potentially find something useful - depending on class.

    Yes.

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    Raymend will buy a mirror and Ritual cast US which will carry the mirror and give everyone BI dice


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    Well, good on Raymend. That's using the old noodle.

    I'm unclear on one real important detail that they don't seem to ever really nail down, Hid, so maybe you can just make a ruling for this particular game as its GM. The attack is literally called "petrifying gaze", right? And it requires the creature and victim to "see each other". Would you rule that that implies direct eye contact? Like, I must look at its eyes and it must look at mine and anything less is technically not a successful "gaze"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Well, good on Raymend. That's using the old noodle.

    I'm unclear on one real important detail that they don't seem to ever really nail down, Hid, so maybe you can just make a ruling for this particular game as its GM. The attack is literally called "petrifying gaze", right? And it requires the creature and victim to "see each other". Would you rule that that implies direct eye contact? Like, I must look at its eyes and it must look at mine and anything less is technically not a successful "gaze"?
    The way I interpret the rule mechanically is this: if you are within range of the basilisk at the start of your turn and you two can see each other, it gets to force you to make the save. If you arenít surprised by it, you can choose to avert your eyes but then you canít see it and therefore canít target it.
    Last edited by Hideous; 10-16-2020 at 09:16 PM.

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    cant target it at all.. or just disadvantaged? (Ie like medusa fight in other game)
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  16. #156
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    Wow, that's more strict than the general interpretation of the creature's entry. Usually people say that you can close your eyes and you will treat yourself as blind during that time. Or you can choose to avert (if the bassy didn't surprise you) and you'll be fighting with the "attacking and being attacked by an unseen target" rules, which is still like fighting blind or like if the bassy had invisibility. But even in the general interpretation there's only one way for the save to be forced, and that's if your eyes are open and you do not avert them.

    My underlying question was where does this creature's ability come from? If all I have to do is just generally look at it in an overall sense, does that mean the petrifying "gaze" actually comes from its hide? And why does it only work if I look? How am I safe if I don't look? What kind of ability of yours relies on my eyes to work? And what about the part that says if a basilisk "sees" itself in a mirror, it "targets itself with its gaze". It's that part right there, more than anything else, that makes me think it comes from the creature's eyes specifically. And if that's the power source that I'm safe as long as I don't look at, then (to me) it seems like we've followed a logic trail that says I must look into its eyes, or merely at its eyes for even a moment, for some sort of connection to be established, forcing a save that, if failed, turns me into porous stone.

    They've never officially been clear on it, but it's what I think. What do you think?

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    Alright, let's start over. Here is the official RAW from the basilisk entry for petrifying gaze, broken down sentence by sentence (or nearly so):


    1. If a creature starts its turn within 30 ft. of the Basilisk and the two of them can see each other, the Basilisk can force the creature to make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw if the Basilisk isn't Incapacitated.


    Let's start here. First and foremost, the range on the gaze is 30 feet. If you are farther than 30 feet away, the gaze does nothing.

    Second, if you are in range and you have line of sight to the Basilisk, it can "force" you to make the save as long as it isn't Incapacitated. In other words, you don't get to choose to just look at its tail or its legs. If you can see it at all, it gets to force you to "look it in the eyes," so to speak. The only choice you get is to avert your eyes completely, which is discussed below. It is also important to note that the gaze is a trait, not an action. Thus, the basilisk does not have to spend an action to "force" you to make the save. It automatically occurs at the start of your turn unless you avert your eyes (again, discussed below).


    2. On a failed save, the creature magically begins to turn to stone and is Restrained. It must repeat the saving throw at the end of its next turn. On a success, the Effect ends. On a failure, the creature is Petrified until freed by the Greater Restoration spell or other magic.

    Okay, it's the start of your turn, and you are within 30 feet, and you have line of sight to the Basilisk, and its not Incapacitated, and you haven't averted your eyes for this turn (again, discussed below). You must roll the DC 12 Constitution saving throw. If you succeed, the gaze does nothing. If you fail, you begin to turn to stone and you are Restrained for the rest of your turn, and the rest of the round (including the Basilisk's turn), and your entire next turn as well.

    While Restrained, your speed becomes 0, and you can’t benefit from any bonus to your speed. Attack rolls against you have advantage, and your Attack rolls have disadvantage. You also have disadvantage on Dexterity Saving Throws. This means you can't run away, the Basilisk gets advantage on attacks against you, and you have disadvantage on your attacks against the Basilisk.

    At the end of your next turn, you roll the save again. If you pass, you are no longer Restrained and the effect ends. If you fail, you are Petrified. A petrified creature is transformed, along with any nonmagical object it is wearing or carrying, into a solid inanimate substance (usually stone). Its weight increases by a factor of ten, and it ceases aging. The creature is also Incapacitated, can’t move or speak, and is unaware of its surroundings. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage. The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity Saving Throws. The creature has Resistance to all damage. The creature is immune to poison and disease, although a poison or disease already in its system is suspended, not neutralized. For all intents and purposes, you are basically dead, although in this case, Elminster's necklace will save you by teleporting your stone body back to his tower to be restored at the next dawn.

    3. A creature that isn't surprised can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If it does so, it can't see the Basilisk until the start of its next turn, when it can avert its eyes again. If it looks at the Basilisk in the meantime, it must immediately make the save.

    Okay, here is the tricky part. Let's start with a summary on the surprise rules. "The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any creature or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter."

    So, assuming the Basilisk is trying to be stealthy, it rolls a stealth check which I compare against your passive Perception score. If I beat your passive Perception, the Basilisk surprises you, and you do not get to choose to avert your eyes at the start of your turn to avoid making the save which would otherwise be required of you.

    If the Basilisk is not trying to be stealthy, or if I do not beat your passive Perception score, then you are not surprised, and you can choose to avert your eyes at the start of your turn. If at any point before the start of your next turn, you choose to look at the Basilisk for any reason, you must immediately make the save you had avoided making until now.

    While you are averting your eyes, the Basilisk is treated as an unseen attacker. "When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target's location correctly. When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it."

    Okay, lets unpack that in reverse. First, if you avert your eyes, then you can't see the Basilisk, so it gets advantage on its attacks against you. Furthermore, if you avert your eyes, you have to target a square in the hopes that the Basilisk is there, and even if it is, then you have disadvantage on your attack roll. If it is not, then you automatically miss. I consider this similar to the situation where you are trying to target an invisible creature based on sounds it makes. Just because you can't see the Basilisk, you can probably still hear it unless you are in a zone of silence. That means you probably have a general idea which direction the Basilisk is in, but you can't pinpoint the direction or distance. You have to "call your shot," by picking a cell and then rolling with disadvantage. If you guess correctly and hit, the attack goes through. If you guess wrong or you roll poorly, the attack misses.

    Again, you can't just look at its tail to see where it is. The RAW says: "If you can see it..." That means any part of it, including the tip of the talon on the big toe of its left hind leg. If you want to avoid making the save, you have to completely avert your eyes and not look at any part of it.


    4. If the Basilisk sees its reflection within 30 ft. of it in bright light, it mistakes itself for a rival and Targets itself with its gaze.


    This is an interesting tidbit thrown in at the end. Obviously, if the Basilisk sees its reflection in Raymend's mirror, for example, then it has to make a save as long as it is in bright light. It also tells me that if you see the reflection of the Basilisk in the mirror, you still have to make your own save even if you aren't looking directly at the Basilisk.

    I hope this helps explain the way I interpret the rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Wow, that's more strict than the general interpretation of the creature's entry. Usually people say that you can close your eyes and you will treat yourself as blind during that time. Or you can choose to avert (if the bassy didn't surprise you) and you'll be fighting with the "attacking and being attacked by an unseen target" rules, which is still like fighting blind or like if the bassy had invisibility. But even in the general interpretation there's only one way for the save to be forced, and that's if your eyes are open and you do not avert them.

    My underlying question was where does this creature's ability come from? If all I have to do is just generally look at it in an overall sense, does that mean the petrifying "gaze" actually comes from its hide? And why does it only work if I look? How am I safe if I don't look? What kind of ability of yours relies on my eyes to work? And what about the part that says if a basilisk "sees" itself in a mirror, it "targets itself with its gaze". It's that part right there, more than anything else, that makes me think it comes from the creature's eyes specifically. And if that's the power source that I'm safe as long as I don't look at, then (to me) it seems like we've followed a logic trail that says I must look into its eyes, or merely at its eyes for even a moment, for some sort of connection to be established, forcing a save that, if failed, turns me into porous stone.

    They've never officially been clear on it, but it's what I think. What do you think?
    Read my lengthy post above this for a detailed explanation, but to answer your question specifically: Yes, I read it as coming from the Basilisk's eyes as well. But the key is that you can't choose to look at the Basilisk without also looking at its eyes. You can't choose to look only at its body.

  19. #159
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    Wow, you sure know your 5e. But I shouldn't be surprised. I remember you ran a learn-how-to-play-5e game for a large group of people and that feels like it was two or more years ago.

    So here's an interesting scenario - how would the creature handle a person wearing a mask that had fake eyes on stalks coming up out of the sides of its head while the eyes of the person inside looked out through camouflaged holes in the mask?

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    That's an interesting hypothetical. I keep thinking of ways to get around the fact that the basilisk would try to "target" the fake eyes and ignore the victim's real eyes. I guess the only thing I can say is that, perhaps after trying to petrify the victim by gazing at the fake eyes, the creature might begin to understand something was wrong. Perhaps some kind of intelligence or wisdom check to figure out that it was being tricked, how it was being tricked, and how to get around it.

    I guess my other thought is this: it doesn't matter how many creatures are within 30 feet of the basilisk. You could fit dozens of creatures in that radius, and each one has to roll the save at the start of its turn unless it averts its eyes. It doesn't say the basilisk has to look directly at all 50 creatures surrounding it; they have to look at it. So even if the victim's real eyes were hidden behind camouflage, I could see how a DM would rule you still have to roll the save if you do not choose to avert your eyes. Perhaps its the mere fact that you are looking at its eyes when you look at it, rather than it having to see your eyes.
    Last edited by Hideous; 10-21-2020 at 12:21 PM.

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