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Thread: Chapter 9: OOC

  1. #121

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    https://www.dropbox.com/s/v99jz3n5w2...d%201.BMP?dl=0

    I realize after I made it that I left Alyssa off of it. I will add her. I will post more as I can. This is where things are frozen at the start of potentially round 1. Let me know if you want to attack or advance.

    The orcs are not moving quickly 10-15' per round. Part of this is possibly due to the terrain being difficult.

  2. #122

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    If the grid is too overpowering there, I can back off on it a bit. I wanted to make sure you could see your cells.

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    1.) What direction are the orcs moving?

    2.) This is a mix of bugbears and orcs right?

    3.) How far away are our allies?

  4. Default Chapter 9: OOC

    Wrong. Maybe in your game, but in the PHB it never mentions being unaware of a potential threat, otherwise you canít use stealth in combat because youíre being threaten every turn, so your agreement is completely wrong. If this was a house rule, no prob, itís the DMs game, but springing it on us the first round after much planning, smacks of the DM not liking his rolls, which Iíve experienced in other games. Whatever the case, the ruling is made and although I feel it is incorrect, and the RAW shows it to be incorrect, saying it is otherwise is being ignorant of the rules per the PHB.

    SURPRISE
    A band of adventurers sneaks up on a Bandit camp, springing from the trees to Attack them. A Gelatinous Cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them. In these situations, one side of the battle gains Surprise over the other.

    The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone Hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesnít notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

    If youíre surprised, you canít move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you canít take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members arenít.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spellblade View Post
    This is a correct ruling. You only get surprise when you are hidden AND the enemy is unaware of a potential threat. The orcs are clearly aware of a threat and cannot be surprised. Since the Sentinels are all hidden we will have advantage on our initial attack rolls but we cannot get surprise.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spellblade View Post
    1.) What direction are the orcs moving?

    2.) This is a mix of bugbears and orcs right?

    3.) How far away are our allies?
    1 south at 10-15' feet per round. They aren't running.

    2 No, these are just orcs. All your recon says that although they are co-existing in the fort, but they aren't going out in the same parties. The ogres are mixing and matching, but not the orcs and bugbears.

    3 you can't see them, but the plan was for them to go ~100' south of you and stop. The plan is for them to come north and re-engage and assist you with these orcs after the battle starts.

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    Don't we basically have to attack this round? The orc in front of Vortigern is going to step on him if it continues forward.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luopo View Post
    Wrong. Maybe in your game, but in the PHB it never mentions being unaware of a potential threat, otherwise you can’t use stealth in combat because you’re being threaten every turn, so your agreement is completely wrong. If this was a house rule, no prob, it’s the DMs game, but springing it on us the first round after much planning, smacks of the DM not liking his rolls, which I’ve experienced in other games. Whatever the case, the ruling is made and although I feel it is incorrect, and the RAW shows it to be incorrect, saying it is otherwise is being ignorant of the rules per the PHB.

    SURPRISE
    A band of adventurers sneaks up on a Bandit camp, springing from the trees to Attack them. A Gelatinous Cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them. In these situations, one side of the battle gains Surprise over the other.

    The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone Hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

    If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
    I can change things if you want. What I have been doing since the game started is awarding a potentially free round for surprise if the conditions are right. You have been the recipient of this in several battles. After the free round (where the enemy stands their flat-footed taking no action/movement/reaction), I have been rolling initiative. If you win initiative, you go twice before the enemy moves once (although they could use reactions during the second of the turns).

    To me this gives the attacking party even more potential advantage.

    I'm not trying to metagame you here, nor am I unhappy with my rolls. I'm offering you a choice here of letting the enemy keep going south, letting you attack now, and to talk it over OOC. I am being consistent with how I've done this previously, even if it isn't exactly RAW. This is the first time that a ruling has come up where the enemy is aware of a general threat in the area, which to me would make it hard to award a surprise round. Again, you'd still be attacking advantage.
    Last edited by zebsen; 06-14-2019 at 08:59 PM.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spellblade View Post
    Don't we basically have to attack this round? The orc in front of Vortigern is going to step on him if it continues forward.
    No, you don't. As long as you successfully roll stealth again, you'll be okay. Remember that PWT is still in effect, which is somewhat magically concealing you. I'm not going to attempt to try to make the map reflect that you're in bushes and such. Consider yourself and your mounts to be semi-cloaked predators right now. Without PWT it would be far more risky.

    To account for the horse mount, what I'm doing is having you roll stealth each round at +10, and then a wisdom DC 10 to keep your mount from moving/making a sound. If you fail that, stealth will be at disadvantage (but still +10 to the lowest roll). I'm open to other ideas here, but that is the most fair way that I can think to handle this.
    Last edited by zebsen; 06-14-2019 at 09:00 PM.

  9. Default

    If the orcs are confronted with an obviously hostile situation by the Golden Gauntlet, then they can't be surprised from a mechanical standpoint by the Sentinels hidden in front of them in the woods (see bold below). The Sentinels in the woods, however, will have advantage on their first attack as they are hidden. You can always hide in the middle of combat. That has nothing to do with surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luopo View Post
    Wrong. Maybe in your game, but in the PHB it never mentions being unaware of a potential threat, otherwise you can’t use stealth in combat because you’re being threaten every turn, so your agreement is completely wrong. If this was a house rule, no prob, it’s the DMs game, but springing it on us the first round after much planning, smacks of the DM not liking his rolls, which I’ve experienced in other games. Whatever the case, the ruling is made and although I feel it is incorrect, and the RAW shows it to be incorrect, saying it is otherwise is being ignorant of the rules per the PHB.

    SURPRISE
    A band of adventurers sneaks up on a Bandit camp, springing from the trees to Attack them. A Gelatinous Cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them. In these situations, one side of the battle gains Surprise over the other.

    The GM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the GM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone Hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

    If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.

  10. Default

    It makes no sense to risk another round of stealth rolls. Everyone should submit a round of combat. I will post something for Kalthanar.

    Quote Originally Posted by zebsen View Post
    No, you don't. As long as you successfully roll stealth again, you'll be okay. Remember that PWT is still in effect, which is somewhat magically concealing you. I'm not going to attempt to try to make the map reflect that you're in bushes and such. Consider yourself and your mounts to be semi-cloaked predators right now. Without PWT it would be far more risky.

    To account for the horse mount, what I'm doing is having you roll stealth each round at +10, and then a wisdom DC 10 to keep your mount from moving/making a sound. If you fail that, stealth will be at disadvantage (but still +10 to the lowest roll). I'm open to other ideas here, but that is the most fair way that I can think to handle this.

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