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Thread: Other Chat

  1. #1
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    Default Other Chat

    I've created this separate thread for any chat that's completely irrelevant to the game or is otherwise very involved and might distract from the game. I'm thinking along the lines of character builds, custom content, DMs Guild material, or even just shooting the breeze about life, the universe, and everything. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, as this has no relation to the game at all.



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  2. #2
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    Here's my workup for the Way of the Blurred Fist, a monk tradition. Let me know what you think about its balance.

    Blurred Fist Technique

    • Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your fists move as fast as your feet. While you can still spend 1 Ki to use Flurry of Blows normally, you may instead choose to spend 2 Ki to make a Flurry of Blows with a number of unarmed attacks equal to the number of feet you moved on your turn divided by 10. These attacks can be made at any point during your movement after you have moved enough to have earned them.


    Fleet of Foot

    • At 6th level, your body has become used to its enhanced speed and no longer requires Ki to do some things. You can now use Step of the Wind as your bonus action without expending Ki. You can spend 1 Ki to use Step of the Wind as part of your move action and still move up to your speed.
    • Your enhanced speed also now allows you to move so fast that your body creates natural phenomena – heat from friction may burn those near you, static built up may shock them, or you may displace air to create sonic booms. Any creature you move past (i.e. you leave a square adjacent to it) after you have moved at least your base speed during your turn must succeed on a Dex save against your Ki save DC or take 1d4 damage. This damage can be fire, lightning, or thunder damage, but it must be the same damage type within the same turn. This damage increases to 1d6 at level 11 and 1d8 at level 17. A creature can only take this damage once per dash action. If you choose to deal fire damage, any unattended flammable object you move past bursts into flames.


    Swift of Body

    • Beginning at 11th level, your body is always ready to spring into action. You can take a turn at initiative 0 on surprise rounds even if you are surprised, though you still count as being surprised for any mechanical purposes. You gain a bonus to initiative checks equal to your wisdom modifier, and can spend a ki point to gain advantage on your initiative roll. You can also spend 5 Ki during your turn (no action required) to take a second turn during the same round at your initiative -10.


    Fast of Hand

    • At 17th level, your fists move with ever-increasing speed. When you make a Flurry of Blows, you can choose to deal fire, lightning, or thunder damage on each hit in addition to your regular damage. The damage must remain the same type within the same turn. Each time you hit, you deal additional damage of your selected type for that turn. On your first unarmed hit, you deal 1d4 of your selected damage type, 1d6 on the second hit, 1d8 on the third, 1d10 on the fourth, and 1d12 on the fifth. On the sixth and any subsequent hits, this additional damage is 12. In addition, any creatures taking 1d12 damage in this way must make a Constitution save. Failure on the save means the creature dies (or is knocked unconscious – your choice). A creature can only make this save once per turn.
    Last edited by Rellott; 04-03-2016 at 07:22 PM.



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  3. #3
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    I just remembered a rogue archetype (Speedster) from an en5ider article that has some other interesting flavor if something I've got seems overpowered. Here's the most relevant/interesting excerpts:

    Faster than Gravity

    At 13th level, you run so fast that the earth can’t pull you down. When you take the Dash action or use the Speed Boost feature, you gain the following benefits until the end of your next turn:
    You gain the benefits of the water walk spell.
    You gain the benefits of the feather fall spell and can move your full land speed through air while falling.
    You can traverse and stand on vertical surfaces as though they were horizontal.
    The duration of these effects end if you fall prone or if your speed is reduced to 0.


    Faster than Space Itself
    When you reach 17th level, you can run almost anywhere in the cosmos. When you expend all your movement from your Speed Boost pool in a single turn, you may cast either teleport or plane
    shift (self only) as a bonus action.

    [These both refer to the Speed Boost feature/pool, which is basically some extra movement that the rogue gets to spend whenever they want, refreshing at each rest.]




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  4. #4

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    You might consider ganking Barbarian's level 14 Eagle Totem, as it seems to fit the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or anime-style feel you seem to be going for:

    Eagle. While raging, you have a flying speed equal to your current walking speed. This benefit works only in short bursts; you fall if you end your turn in the air and nothing else is holding you aloft.
    Obviously, the part about raging doesn't apply, so you'd have to adapt that into Ki points or something.


    Anyway, I'm taking a closer look at what you posted, but it's a lot to evaluate and I'm not terribly familiar with monk, so it will take some time before I can get to it in detail.
    Last edited by Claw; 04-03-2016 at 05:21 PM.

  5. #5
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    I was actually feeling a bit more inspired by The Flash.
    Last edited by Rellott; 04-03-2016 at 05:33 PM.



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  6. #6

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    I have to admit a bias here. In general, I'd be inclined to think of a monk as something in the style of Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee. If I think of something going really (but realistically) fast, I'd be inclined to think of a cheetah. Both exhibit extreme physical prowess in their own way. To make a speed-based monk, I'd naturally take inspiration from those two sources. Even in a world with magic, The Flash is rather superhuman, so balance may be a struggle from the get-go.

    A challenge, but not necessarily impossible. I will keep your inspiration firmly in mind.

  7. #7
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    Leaving aside the Way of the Four Elements, which basically just gives access to 1st-4th level spells, the other two paths generally offer the same sort of material at each tier: 1) Ki to cause effect, 2) theme/flavor in combat, 3) combat preparation, and 4) extra hurt, generally off-turn

    At tier 1, Open Hand lets you push, knock prone, or prevent reactions with a hit on Flurry of Blows. Shadow lets you spend ki to cast some stealthy spells with no components.

    At tier 2, Open Hand lets you heal yourself once per long rest. Shadow lets you teleport in darkness and then have advantage on a follow-up melee attack.

    At tier 3, Open Hand lets you cast Sanctuary on yourself with unlimited duration, effectively making it harder to hit you at the beginning of combat. Shadow lets you become invisible.

    At tier 4, Open Hand effectively gives you a save or die, and even on a save you deal massive damage - except you can delay the save for nearly 20 days. Shadow lets you make an Opportunity Attack against a creature that gets hit, instead of just when it moves away from you.



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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rellott View Post
    Blurred Fist Technique

    • Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your fists move as fast as your feet. While you can still spend 1 Ki to use Flurry of Blows normally, you may instead choose to spend 2 Ki to make a Flurry of Blows with a number of unarmed attacks equal to the number of feet you moved on your turn divided by 10. These attacks can be made at any point during your movement after you have moved enough to have earned them.
    So right away, the first thing I think when I see this is that I should obviously optimize my speed to maximize my damage. The question is, how fast can I go? A quick Google search informs me that a character fully optimized for speed in 5e can travel a truly ridiculous 1680 feet per round, assuming a little bit of outside help that isn't too hard to get. If your DM is lenient, those speeds can reach 2840 feet per round (320 mph).

    So an optimized Blurred Fist Monk could make between 168 and 284 attacks in a round for just 2 Ki. That's obviously an extreme case, but extreme cases are precisely what you want to pay attention to when you're looking at balance. Balance is about boundaries. Now, it's possible this ability is balanced at level 3 (I haven't done the work to check that yet), but it is definitely not balanced at level 20 when the character has access to Boots of Speed, Haste, Longstrider, Mobile, and base speed bonuses from Monk and Barbarian. So that's the first thing I would look at.

    For a concept like The Flash, you don't necessarily want to put a limit on speed optimizations. Traveling 320 mph seems reasonable for such a character concept, so I wouldn't concern myself with limiting that. But even 1 damage per hit gets pretty silly when you can attack 168+ times, and a Monk deals much more damage than that. A level 20 Wizard can cast Meteor Swarm, dealing about 140 damage at most. A level 20 Fighter with Action Surge attacking 8 times in one round can exceed 140 damage, but not by too much. I'd use those as a baseline for establishing a crude maximum.

    Your two levers for balancing this are Ki cost and number of attacks. Even the most powerful Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard can only cast Meteor Swarm once per day. If you wanted to charge Ki, the cost would have to be 11 or more points, which is overly restrictive to lower-level characters, who can't even afford that until level 11. Alternatively, you could simply make it a once per rest ability. Once per long rest would mimic a Wizard, but a Fighter can action surge once per short rest and is a melee fighter like the monk, so once per short rest might be appropriate, as long as you impose a hard upper limit of 8~10 blows. Another alternative is to impose a soft limit by making the Ki scale up based on the number of attacks. For example, if you charge 2 Ki per attack, they could nova for 10 attacks, but then they're totally out of Ki until the next short rest. The problem with this approach is that it is never worth using at low levels when you can get 2 attacks for 1 Ki. So you could give them 2 attacks for 1 Ki like normal, then charge 3 Ki per extra attack after that. That maxes out at 8 attacks from Flurry. Conveniently, 3 Ki points is what they have at level 3 when they gain this ability.

    So at first pass, my inclination would be:

    Blurred Fist Technique
    Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your fists move as fast as your feet. Each time you spend 1 Ki to use Flurry of Blows normally, you may choose to spend additional Ki to add a number of unarmed attacks to your Flurry up to the number of feet you moved on your turn, divided by 10. Each of these extra attacks costs 3 Ki and can be made at any point during your movement after you have moved enough to have earned them.
    If you think 3 Ki is too costly, then make it 2 Ki. The main point is that there should be an upper bound to prevent the truly ridiculous case.
    Last edited by Claw; 04-03-2016 at 06:59 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Other Chat

    If they're already spending 1 ki to make flurry of blows, they don't have 3 ki left at level 3 to even use this feature, and at level 4 one use of this feature would blow all their ki. I'm thinking something reusable and/or scaling to make it worth it. Maybe 1 ki for each attack after the second? Maybe at level 6 make it 1 ki for every 2 attacks after the 2nd, at 11 1 ki for every 3 attacks, and at 17 1 ki for every 4 attacks? At level 20, blowing all their ki, they'd be making 78 unarmed attacks. If that seems high, perhaps make a cap for the number of attacks that can be made on a turn?
    Or just get rid of the scaling and make it 2 ki to do up to ?? attacks if you can move far enough to allow that?

    The base speed of a monk at level 20 is 60 feet for a race that starts at 30 feet. So move and a dash (via fleet of foot/step of the wind) would net a level 20 character 120 feet of movement and still have an action to attack and bonus action to flurry. Barring magic items and other benefits, that cap (divide by 10) would be 12 unarmed attacks via flurry, plus their initial action attack.

    We could set a cap of 10 on it.

    Blurred Fist Technique
    Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your fists move as fast as your feet. While you can still spend 1 Ki to use Flurry of Blows normally, you may instead choose to spend 2 Ki to make a Flurry of Blows with a number of unarmed attacks equal to the number of feet you moved on your turn divided by 10, up to a maximum of 10 attacks. These attacks can be made at any point during your movement after you have moved enough to have earned them.
    If someone wants to devote their build to speed, at the expense of everything else, they're still not going to get that much more out of it. With this wording, they get a max of 10 unarmed attacks plus the initial weapon attack. Even assuming they've got a good to-hit, the monk's unarmed damage never goes higher than a d10+dex mod, so you're talking a max of around 150 damage (plus their weapon attack, so maybe another 15 for a total of 165) if they hit every time and deal max damage with a +5 dex mod.

    Of course, that's not including any damage taken from Fleet of Foot (max of 1d8 to each creature they move past) or the additional fire/lightning/thunder damage from Fast of Hand, which, if they hit hit with all their attacks is adding up... 1d4+1d6+1d8+1d10+1d12+12+12+12+12+12. Again, assuming they all hit. Also assuming the creature doesn't die from the Con save portion of Fast of Hand.

    So, assuming that the monk uses this feature at level 20 and runs circles around a single enemy, the MAX damage (not including any crit damage or extra stuff from spells or magic items) would be around 275, if ALL of the attacks hit and ALL of the damage dice came up maximum value.

    Of course... a level 20 monk would have 20 ki, so they could technically do this 10 times per rest. If they popped Step of the Wind to use Dodge each time, they could do the combo maybe 6 times per rest. So maybe this is overpowered... Hmm...
    Last edited by Rellott; 04-03-2016 at 07:33 PM.



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  10. #10

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    In my opinion, a hard cap of 10 like you mention is a perfectly good solution as long as it is limited to once per rest or similarly. If you don't put in some kind of limit like that, the monk will naturally use this attack every single round, up to 6 times per rest at level 20, while Wizards and Fighters can only perform a similar nova attack just a single time per rest and will probably feel left behind. Keep in mind Fighters and Barbarians are currently the highest DPR classes (it's debatable which of the two is highest), so you probably don't want to outperform them by too much.

    (And.. I see you've edited your post to show you already recognize that. Well, may as well post this anyway.)

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